The blog formerly known as "Angus Nicolson - an incredulous eye on the isles" this was the blog of an ordinary, boring, former Councillor in the Western Isles of Scotland.
Angus is taking a sabbatical to be with his young family
Debate strengthens democracy, except inside the SNP, as he has discovered. If you want balance then get some scales. This is opinion - our opinion.
ach, leave him alone. Catholic, presbyterian, wee free presbyterian, wee wee free presbyterian, whatever, is all the same fairy tales with slighlty different doctinal difference.
By all means judge him in the political field but it is sad that anyone who puts themselves up for election in WI has to placate the demands of the narrow minded bigot vote in order to have any chance of winning the seat.
Has the news from Bellahouston reached the streets of Manor Park? Is it true that your iconic image of the MSP (for it is surely he!)is going to be the front cover of his election leaflet? One final question, will he wait for the cock to crow thrice before issuing a denial?
Is nothing sacred these days? Why should our MSP (is it really him?) be asked to account to the electorate (or anyone else) for participating in a land-mark religious ceremony in his own country, and why question his motives? The occasion was a coming together in christian fellowship, and love, for our fellow countrymen ... and our neighbours. He has an individual right, as we all do, to choose to express our innermost beliefs and feelings, and to manifest these in an open and public way, without fear or favour... or contradiction. I am not of the catholic faith, but if I had attended at Bellahouston I would have wished to participate. The catholic church and community have much to celebrate, and every reason to give praise and thanks to their leader Most High. A wonderful occasion, if only as for me witnessed on the TV. The critics have been silenced.
Lets face it, they, (the Hangers on, Cllrs, MSPs, MPs so on an so forth) are all farts in trances,spending our money as if it was theirs. They need a jolly big wind to blow them away, taking their stench with them. Alas, No one round here has the guts or the moral fiber NOT to vote for any of them. All loud mouthed here, but not so loud at the ballot box!!!!
Guys, was the mass & communion in Glasgow an ecunemical one? If it was then as a Protestant there is a legitimate reason why he should be having communion there. Even if it wasn't he may have been there as the MSP. However, I can see the less than liberally minded having a field day with this. I seem to remember that they excommunicated a (political) minister for going to friend's funeral in a Catholic church. Personally speaking, I think he should be left alone on this. No, I don't support Labour. No, I'm not a Catholic.
I agree , by and large with Foot-Loose, and would not have any problem whatsoever with this incident were it not for the fact that the MSP passes himself off as an arch protestant (attending services in the Free Church at Back for instance), and a man who is so hypocritical and misleading about his faith is unworthy of his position of trust as an MSP. Shame on him, shame on us.
9.40- NO, the service was definately not an ecumenical one, if it had been then the Moderator of the Church of Scotland, and other religous leaders would have been there. I believe the Moderator of the CofS was snubbed and not given his proper place among the assembled dignatories. If the MSP is indeed a Catholic thats fine, he should issue a simple statement to that effect and the matter would be done with.
I haven't been following this blog long and was starting to enjoy it. But recently a lot of threads seem to be focussed on personalised sniping which frankly I do not find funny, positive or entertaining. What chance we get back to behaving like people again and not bullies?
Abdul bin Al-lan.... priceless! And so he shall be ever after.
As an ex-Catholic, I can tell you that if he's not one he absolutely shouldn't be taking communion (though can of course participate in the mass otherwise) - according to the rules of the church, unless something has changed in the last 15 years.
But if he was there as an ordinary punter (sorry, pilgrim) rather than in an official delegation, he will have to have been attached to a church group, so was he?
Anyway, like others I feel it's the chronic hypocrisy that makes him unfit, not the choice of fairytale or even the blatant opportunism.
A bit of mischief making here by a well placed camera man?
What erks me more about these events is that the average church going punter had to be at that gig three hours before kick-off. No comfy chairs, a required bladder control of the Yogi of Bandarapan, and having to cough up £20 for this 'free' event. Meanwhile the great and the good get a front row seat and were pobably parachuted in at the last minute affording them a chance for a nice cuppa and a bun before the event.
Anyway what we should be concentrating on is that Beach Boy is 100% useless, just like the other half of the political equivalent of Mike & Bernie Winters.
Who cares what people believe! It doesn't matter unless it results in behaviour detrimental to others. AA's conscience is his own business, I'm more bothered about his politics
(8.37 Don't worry it happens sometimes, usually the same topics.)
He was not taking communion. As mentioned on the coverage on BBC Scotland all non-catholics attending the mass were offered a blessing by the priests, not communion.
I don't give a flying act of sexual congress what religion he is, the fact is the man's a lightweight fool who doesn't know anything about issues of great significance to his constituency. Take crofting for example - this is the man who moved an amendment to the bill so that, when you sell croft land for development, you have to pay 50% of the proceeds to the landlord (whether Lomas or Storas) - nice one Alasdair!
What on earth is this nonsense about ? Indeed, what does it signify what a person's private religious beliefs are if they don't bring them into the public arena ?
Half of my extended family went to Bellahouston because they're Catholic. The rest are Free Church so didn't. Nonetheless, we all wished the Catholic side of the family well because they're family, we love them and it meant much to them.
The initial post "judge for yourself" is quite simply the provision of a platform for the narrow minded and bigotted to have a pot at catholics, using the current MSP as a vehicle.
Our country has a poor record on dealing with religous tolerance and bigotry without encouraging intolerance here. What AA believes is beside the point, had he been at a free church communion service or COS service this picture would not have appeared here. So why is it here when it is a Catholic service?
This thread directs comment on the unacceptability of our having an MSP who may choose to worship God in the presence of catholics, and that is it.
Saddeningly there are plenty takers, some of who have tried (at least) to disguise their comments as something political.
Most tellingly this thread tells me something I had not known about its author. Enough said.
11:14pm I couldn't disagree with you more. I have read your posting two or three times and am not seeing anything that you say in this post. It is highlighting the hypocrisy of the event and the individual, nothing more.
I've no idea how you got this genius of a screengrab.
But look at it from his point of view - he has constituents of all faiths and none. As a member of one of Stornoway's less fashionable Protestant churches, I have to say that he also comes to some of our events, too. And he's very welcome. Why shouldn't he put his left foot forward and go to the big event at Bellahouston?
Tolerance, anyone? I don't recall voting for the cove but he goes up in my estimation for this.
11.29 I wholeheartedly agree with you; the issue is that the MSP pretends to be one thing in the Islands (Protestant)and is obviously another on the Mainland. I saw the news clip, and watched him accept the Bread, on his tongue, mouthing "Amen" and crossing himself. I quite shocked, not because he is a Catholic, but because he, and his supporters in Stornoway and Back have always punted his Protestant credentials. Why has he misrepresented his faith, and can he be trusted on anything else now?
Hairy, can't disgree on ecumenicalism being a good thing.
BUT, Yitshak ben-Allan is happy to seek votes on the ground that he is a good FC member, which means rejecting ecumenicalism and especially Catholicism.
He can't have it both ways, especially when he appears to be acting blatantly politically in his overt Church membership.
We get press relases when he coughs, farts or pats a dog, but on this ocassion he is silent which tells you he wants to hide his actions from the Free Church members.
Let us suppose for a minute that the photo is actually of Alasdair Allan. (having seen umpteen "photos" of people who look very like others I would want a wee bit more solid evidence) But supposing it is him, have we any right to pass judgement on his presence there? Is it any of our business what is going through his mind? I am aware of people who have started out as presbyterians / jews / muslims / catholics and have converted for whatever reason during a lifetime. I am also aware of people who have started off as atheists and become religious, as well as people who have started off as keen churchgoers and finished up as atheists / humanists. Who cares? I know nothing of AA's spiritual path. If you voted for him because he was FP and isn't then surely you have only yourself to blame as you should not be basing your political choices on religion. I was bought up C of S but have participated in a few masses, even taking communion at a friend's wedding. (I know the priest would not be happy if he knew, but my conscience was clear and that is the important thing). Having seen both and participated in both I am now a non-believer. Does that make me unsuitable for political office in the eyes of previous posters? I leave you with this thought- there is a body of opinion which believes that Jesus incorporated Indian spiritual thoughts into his philosophy, possibly even visiting India. But nobody seems to be criticising him.
I say that if his religious affiliation (or none) is so important to you, ask the man direct. Don't gossip behind his back. It is demeaning.
It is behind his back because he is not taking part in it. Whilst this blog is open etc. If it was taking place in an office etc then it would be bhind his back too. The same rules apply.
I heard much beading rattling in manorpark today. After our MSP being invited to the presbytery last year - with maroot being his sponsor - the elders are having a laugh. We know ab's religious affiliation (noone cares) but snake in the grass Allan. Our Murdo maroot how you are being exposed by the people with whom you associate. "be ye separate".
Bridean...isn't it amazing that people like you who have no time for Christianity mock and patronise believers and go on to tell them not to be so foolish as to believe in God...you basically say that they are fools. How can they prove that there is a God? I do not attend church but I believe in God. Can people like you prove there is no God? To me and many like me, your opinion that there is nothing is even more unbelievable but you never address that. People who think an explosion created this amazing world are the real fools.
In short, you're jumping to firm conclusions before considering all the evidence.
Getting to be a bit of a habit, isn't it?
Think you might need treatment for the problem.
PS - Of course, Dr Allan's behaviour is important. Some things are a measure of a man's sincerity and depth - important qualities for any human being, especially one who is to be trusted with political decisions.
Re Anon 9.20am - don't put words in my mouth - I didn't say believers were fools!
I don't believe in God - that's my opinion - but I don't have a problem with people who do believe as long as it doesn't spill over into bickering, sectarianism, wars etc... which, lets face it, is what often happens in the world!
VOTE SNP - TO BE SURE ... to be sure ...! Is there a GOD? Do we worship the same GOD? Are you catholic, protestant, wee free, big free, moslem, hindu, ... atheist, humanist, royalist, don't know, couldn't care less ... AA will romp home next May ... and religion will not be the deciding factor. His track record as our MSP speaks for itself. Vote SNP ...TO BE SURE ... to be sure!
2.20. You are very clearly trying to take the piss here. At no point in the news clip do you see the MSP accept the bread "on his tongue". Which you wouldn't in any case as he is not a catholic.
I also believe he worked for the Church of Scotland for a number of years "off the island."
as a recent (if you watch Dave) QI said "...There are many horse faced people in the world..." (referring to a similarity in the looks of two of the guests)
Even i am pretty sure i know how to genuflect - those who criticise him for genuflecting the right way must, too! LS
Yes it was him, but he didn't cross himself so it doesn't count.
ReplyDeleteHe knows how to genuflect with the best of them. Obviousy had plenty of practice.
ReplyDeleteOne ferry, two ferries, no ferries;
Protestant and Catholic;
Pro-windfarms and anti-windfarms;
Pro-sabbatarian and anti-sabbatarian.
Does he have the slightest idea how to hold a genuine opinion on anything?
ach, leave him alone. Catholic, presbyterian, wee free presbyterian, wee wee free presbyterian, whatever, is all the same fairy tales with slighlty different doctinal difference.
ReplyDeleteBy all means judge him in the political field but it is sad that anyone who puts themselves up for election in WI has to placate the demands of the narrow minded bigot vote in order to have any chance of winning the seat.
Maybe they were just checking for toupes?
ReplyDeleteHas the news from Bellahouston reached the streets of Manor Park? Is it true that your iconic image of the MSP (for it is surely he!)is going to be the front cover of his election leaflet? One final question, will he wait for the cock to crow thrice before issuing a denial?
ReplyDeleteIs nothing sacred these days? Why should our MSP (is it really him?) be asked to account to the electorate (or anyone else) for participating in a land-mark religious ceremony in his own country, and why question his motives? The occasion was a coming together in christian fellowship, and love, for our fellow countrymen ... and our neighbours. He has an individual right, as we all do, to choose to express our innermost beliefs and feelings, and to manifest these in an open and public way, without fear or favour... or contradiction. I am not of the catholic faith, but if I had attended at Bellahouston I would have wished to participate. The catholic church and community have much to celebrate, and every reason to give praise and thanks to their leader Most High. A wonderful occasion, if only as for me witnessed on the TV. The critics have been silenced.
ReplyDeleteLets face it, they, (the Hangers on, Cllrs, MSPs, MPs so on an so forth) are all farts in trances,spending our money as if it was theirs. They need a jolly big wind to blow them away, taking their stench with them. Alas, No one round here has the guts or the moral fiber NOT to vote for any of them. All loud mouthed here, but not so loud at the ballot box!!!!
ReplyDeleteGuys, was the mass & communion in Glasgow an ecunemical one? If it was then as a Protestant there is a legitimate reason why he should be having communion there. Even if it wasn't he may have been there as the MSP.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I can see the less than liberally minded having a field day with this. I seem to remember that they excommunicated a (political) minister for going to friend's funeral in a Catholic church.
Personally speaking, I think he should be left alone on this.
No, I don't support Labour. No, I'm not a Catholic.
Maroot must be turning in his grave...
ReplyDeleteI agree , by and large with Foot-Loose, and would not have any problem whatsoever with this incident were it not for the fact that the MSP passes himself off as an arch protestant (attending services in the Free Church at Back for instance), and a man who is so hypocritical and misleading about his faith is unworthy of his position of trust as an MSP. Shame on him, shame on us.
ReplyDelete9.40-
ReplyDeleteNO, the service was definately not an ecumenical one, if it had been then the Moderator of the Church of Scotland, and other religous leaders would have been there. I believe the Moderator of the CofS was snubbed and not given his proper place among the assembled dignatories. If the MSP is indeed a Catholic thats fine, he should issue a simple statement to that effect and the matter would be done with.
What are youse on about, he clearly has his jacket ON, so no problem!
ReplyDeleteMaroot.
I haven't been following this blog long and was starting to enjoy it. But recently a lot of threads seem to be focussed on personalised sniping which frankly I do not find funny, positive or entertaining. What chance we get back to behaving like people again and not bullies?
ReplyDeleteI have more of a problem with him being a member of the Free Church that with him being Catholic.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, it all pales into insignifigance compared to the problem I have with him being a duplicitous hypocrite.
If Alex Salmond told him to grow a beard and call himself Abdul bin Al-lan he'd be first on the plane to Mecca.
Abdul bin Al-lan.... priceless! And so he shall be ever after.
ReplyDeleteAs an ex-Catholic, I can tell you that if he's not one he absolutely shouldn't be taking communion (though can of course participate in the mass otherwise) - according to the rules of the church, unless something has changed in the last 15 years.
But if he was there as an ordinary punter (sorry, pilgrim) rather than in an official delegation, he will have to have been attached to a church group, so was he?
Anyway, like others I feel it's the chronic hypocrisy that makes him unfit, not the choice of fairytale or even the blatant opportunism.
A bit of mischief making here by a well placed camera man?
ReplyDeleteWhat erks me more about these events is that the average church going punter had to be at that gig three hours before kick-off. No comfy chairs, a required bladder control of the Yogi of Bandarapan, and having to cough up £20 for this 'free' event. Meanwhile the great and the good get a front row seat and were pobably parachuted in at the last minute affording them a chance for a nice cuppa and a bun before the event.
Anyway what we should be concentrating on is that Beach Boy is 100% useless, just like the other half of the political equivalent of Mike & Bernie Winters.
He thinks he is the next Tony Blair!
ReplyDeleteHe is following his wife (who s/he?)into the Catholic Church.
Who cares what people believe! It doesn't matter unless it results in behaviour detrimental to others. AA's conscience is his own business, I'm more bothered about his politics
ReplyDelete(8.37 Don't worry it happens sometimes, usually the same topics.)
He was not taking communion. As mentioned on the coverage on BBC Scotland all non-catholics attending the mass were offered a blessing by the priests, not communion.
ReplyDeleteI don't give a flying act of sexual congress what religion he is, the fact is the man's a lightweight fool who doesn't know anything about issues of great significance to his constituency. Take crofting for example - this is the man who moved an amendment to the bill so that, when you sell croft land for development, you have to pay 50% of the proceeds to the landlord (whether Lomas or Storas) - nice one Alasdair!
ReplyDeleteFirst - said the SNP apologists - he wasn't even there.
ReplyDeleteThen it became, it just looks like him.
Then it was that he was at a non-existent ecummencial service.
Now the excuse it that he wasn't actually taking communion.
By Monday will it be, "He was only obeying orders"?
5:28pm No by Monday it will be: "IT WAS AN IMPOSTER WHO IMPERSONATED HIM!!!!! HE WAS FAR TOO BUSY HOLDING THE MP'S JACKET"
ReplyDeleteWhat on earth is this nonsense about ? Indeed, what does it signify what a person's private religious beliefs are if they don't bring them into the public arena ?
ReplyDeleteHalf of my extended family went to Bellahouston because they're Catholic. The rest are Free Church so didn't. Nonetheless, we all wished the Catholic side of the family well because they're family, we love them and it meant much to them.
I despair of some of the comments above.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10774706
ReplyDeleteThis may help to explain the MSPs extraordionary behaviour!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI'm rather saddened by this thread.
ReplyDeleteThe initial post "judge for yourself" is quite simply the provision of a platform for the narrow minded and bigotted to have a pot at catholics, using the current MSP as a vehicle.
Our country has a poor record on dealing with religous tolerance and bigotry without encouraging intolerance here. What AA believes is beside the point, had he been at a free church communion service or COS service this picture would not have appeared here. So why is it here when it is a Catholic service?
This thread directs comment on the unacceptability of our having an MSP who may choose to worship God in the presence of catholics, and that is it.
Saddeningly there are plenty takers, some of who have tried (at least) to disguise their comments as something political.
Most tellingly this thread tells me something I had not known about its author. Enough said.
Love the backdrop to the photo of His Holiness, Arch Hypocrite Allan. Reminds me of the song: 'Don't let your son go down on me'.
ReplyDelete11:14pm I couldn't disagree with you more. I have read your posting two or three times and am not seeing anything that you say in this post. It is highlighting the hypocrisy of the event and the individual, nothing more.
ReplyDeleteI've no idea how you got this genius of a screengrab.
ReplyDeleteBut look at it from his point of view - he has constituents of all faiths and none. As a member of one of Stornoway's less fashionable Protestant churches, I have to say that he also comes to some of our events, too. And he's very welcome. Why shouldn't he put his left foot forward and go to the big event at Bellahouston?
Tolerance, anyone? I don't recall voting for the cove but he goes up in my estimation for this.
11.29
ReplyDeleteI wholeheartedly agree with you; the issue is that the MSP pretends to be one thing in the Islands (Protestant)and is obviously another on the Mainland. I saw the news clip, and watched him accept the Bread, on his tongue, mouthing "Amen" and crossing himself. I quite shocked, not because he is a Catholic, but because he, and his supporters in Stornoway and Back have always punted his Protestant credentials. Why has he misrepresented his faith, and can he be trusted on anything else now?
Hairy, can't disgree on ecumenicalism being a good thing.
ReplyDeleteBUT, Yitshak ben-Allan is happy to seek votes on the ground that he is a good FC member, which means rejecting ecumenicalism and especially Catholicism.
He can't have it both ways, especially when he appears to be acting blatantly politically in his overt Church membership.
We get press relases when he coughs, farts or pats a dog, but on this ocassion he is silent which tells you he wants to hide his actions from the Free Church members.
Let us suppose for a minute that the photo is actually of Alasdair Allan. (having seen umpteen "photos" of people who look very like others I would want a wee bit more solid evidence) But supposing it is him, have we any right to pass judgement on his presence there? Is it any of our business what is going through his mind? I am aware of people who have started out as presbyterians / jews / muslims / catholics and have converted for whatever reason during a lifetime. I am also aware of people who have started off as atheists and become religious, as well as people who have started off as keen churchgoers and finished up as atheists / humanists. Who cares? I know nothing of AA's spiritual path. If you voted for him because he was FP and isn't then surely you have only yourself to blame as you should not be basing your political choices on religion. I was bought up C of S but have participated in a few masses, even taking communion at a friend's wedding. (I know the priest would not be happy if he knew, but my conscience was clear and that is the important thing). Having seen both and participated in both I am now a non-believer. Does that make me unsuitable for political office in the eyes of previous posters? I leave you with this thought- there is a body of opinion which believes that Jesus incorporated Indian spiritual thoughts into his philosophy, possibly even visiting India. But nobody seems to be criticising him.
ReplyDeleteI say that if his religious affiliation (or none) is so important to you, ask the man direct. Don't gossip behind his back. It is demeaning.
Hebrewdean... how is this very public and well-read blog "behind his back"?
ReplyDeletefalsus in uno, falsus in omnibus
ReplyDeleteI think the Pope was trying to tell him nicely that the Tin-Tin look is so yesterday......
ReplyDelete3:59
ReplyDeleteIt is behind his back because he is not taking part in it. Whilst this blog is open etc. If it was taking place in an office etc then it would be bhind his back too. The same rules apply.
It certainly looks like him... but is it him?!
ReplyDeleteDoes he take the communion?
Does she cross himself?
Isn't he supposed to be a member of the Free Church?
Since 'God' is entirely imaginary, the debate on what subdivision of Christianity he's in is totally absurd and irrellevant!
Whether it's him or not!
I heard much beading rattling in manorpark today. After our MSP being invited to the presbytery last year - with maroot being his sponsor - the elders are having a laugh. We know ab's religious affiliation (noone cares) but snake in the grass Allan. Our Murdo maroot how you are being exposed by the people with whom you associate. "be ye separate".
ReplyDeleteBridean...isn't it amazing that people like you who have no time for Christianity mock and patronise believers and go on to tell them not to be so foolish as to believe in God...you basically say that they are fools. How can they prove that there is a God? I do not attend church but I believe in God. Can people like you prove there is no God? To me and many like me, your opinion that there is nothing is even more unbelievable but you never address that. People who think an explosion created this amazing world are the real fools.
ReplyDeleteRe Bridean
ReplyDelete9.20 am is right!
In short, you're jumping to firm conclusions before considering all the evidence.
Getting to be a bit of a habit, isn't it?
Think you might need treatment for the problem.
PS - Of course, Dr Allan's behaviour is important. Some things are a measure of a man's sincerity and depth - important qualities for any human being, especially one who is to be trusted with political decisions.
Re Anon 9.20am - don't put words in my mouth - I didn't say believers were fools!
ReplyDeleteI don't believe in God - that's my opinion - but I don't have a problem with people who do believe as long as it doesn't spill over into bickering, sectarianism, wars etc... which, lets face it, is what often happens in the world!
9:20AM Thought your response was possibly about tolerance, until I got to the last sentence. Intolerant believers are as bad as intolerant atheists.
ReplyDeleteLive and let live, and the intolerant people should be banished to a remote isl ... oh.
i see sectarianism is alive and well amongst the New Labourites. what a shock.
ReplyDeleteRe - 3.35 pm
ReplyDeleteNo - not sectarianism. Just opportunitism.
As it is in the Tory Party, the Lib Dems and the SNP.
Forever and ever.
Amen.
PS - So let's stop the holier than thou attitude... It's neither healthy nor honest.
VOTE SNP - TO BE SURE ... to be sure ...! Is there a GOD? Do we worship the same GOD? Are you catholic, protestant, wee free, big free, moslem, hindu, ... atheist, humanist, royalist, don't know, couldn't care less ...
ReplyDeleteAA will romp home next May ... and religion will not be the deciding factor. His track record as our MSP speaks for itself.
Vote SNP ...TO BE SURE ... to be sure!
9:27pm PMSL! I really hope that you are having a laff
ReplyDeleteThere's only one politician who's romping in the Western Isles and I don't think it is our MSP.... Well maybe a different sort of romping! lol
ReplyDelete2.20.
ReplyDeleteYou are very clearly trying to take the piss here. At no point in the news clip do you see the MSP accept the bread "on his tongue". Which you wouldn't in any case as he is not a catholic.
I also believe he worked for the Church of Scotland for a number of years "off the island."
Anon 1.00pm: I for one saw him on News 24 taking the bread and then blessing himself.
ReplyDeleteThis so called of an excuse for an MSP let alone a man would sell his soul to the devil if he thought it would get him a vote.
as a recent (if you watch Dave) QI said "...There are many horse faced people in the world..."
ReplyDelete(referring to a similarity in the looks of two of the guests)
Even i am pretty sure i know how to genuflect - those who criticise him for genuflecting the right way must, too!
LS