Gay Minister - now it's open season
Not wanting to intrude in an area of personal beliefs, I've avoided making any comment on the saga surrounding Rev Scott Rennie. I had a good look at the petition and noted the large numbers who obviously hold very strong views on the matter, and a quick search found the name of the Minister of the Free Church in Stornoway.
Now, a link to the petition has been posted to the Free Church website.
Personally, I find such a targeted witch-hunt disturbing on many levels, although as a non-believer I may be (blissfully) ignorant of the finer points surrounding this debate.
Let's just remember what the Bible says about this at Leviticus 20:13
As they can no doubt justify the incest between Lot and his daughters in Genesis 19:30-38.
Or indeed, that between the children of Adam & Eve. Just who did marry their three sons?
Anyway, the rest of us realists can sit back and despair as we watch yet another group of religious fanatics try and knock six lumps out of each other; and ponder all the peace and goodwill emanating from the pious.
Those with a specific view might want to sign a petition to support Rev Rennie.
Now, a link to the petition has been posted to the Free Church website.
Personally, I find such a targeted witch-hunt disturbing on many levels, although as a non-believer I may be (blissfully) ignorant of the finer points surrounding this debate.
Let's just remember what the Bible says about this at Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.So if we are to comply with Biblical strictures here, there are obviously some issues surrounding the physical safety of Rev Rennie, which I am sure someone can justify.
As they can no doubt justify the incest between Lot and his daughters in Genesis 19:30-38.
Or indeed, that between the children of Adam & Eve. Just who did marry their three sons?
Anyway, the rest of us realists can sit back and despair as we watch yet another group of religious fanatics try and knock six lumps out of each other; and ponder all the peace and goodwill emanating from the pious.
Those with a specific view might want to sign a petition to support Rev Rennie.
29 comments:
I fail to understand the mentality of people up here in the Western Isles. It is a place full of unhappy marriages, marriages of convenience and arrangement and uptight people. When do you ever see a couple walking hand in hand or enjoying time together? The men work away whilst the women procreate (hopefully together), reluctantly, so that they never have to work again. The men come home, get drunk in the Lewis, chat up the poor women who have yet to find a man and the wives, stay at home looking after the kids, go to church on Sunday, have copious amounts of full fat coffee in HS1 and get fatter.
They celebrate that nothing (apart from the pubs and church) open on Sunday. It gives them yet another excuse not to be together on a Sunday and an opportunity to wear a hat.
This is not life, this is not normal and this is not right.
Why should a gay man not become a minister?? What is the point of a minister, to help people to believe that there is a reason to our being. It doesn't matter who or what he loves, he is helping and counselling. If only a handful of people believe that he has helped them believe then what is the problem.
Get a life, stop judging and look inside your own lives. I'm sure that you will find a lot that is more shocking.
Aye and if we are to take the good book literally as the Free Church would have us believe its ok to screw your slaves and stone your wife if you catch her at it.
Let's not forget some of those other shining examples of morality held up in the self same book of the bible that the Christians love to use to justify their homophobia:
* Don't sow your field with two different kinds of grain
* Don't wear a garment of cloth made with two different kinds of thread
* A person who curses his father or mother must be put to death
* You are to buy slaves from the nations surrounding you
and on and on ad nauseum with such medieval nonsense.
just a pity that the reformation destroyed many a fantastic cathedral in the most violent of fashions across Scotland.
The reason we have Glasgow cathedral is that the people of the city blocaded it to stop it being raised to the ground!!
Yea annonymous cos we're all the same up here - don't tar us all with the same brush.
And for the record there's nothing wrong with being a full-time mum, it's the hardest job I've ever done.
Also for one to state '..stop judging' seems just a bit on the hypocritical side.
There's much I'd love to change about this place at times - but that would be the same regardless of where I lived - but I will always be proud to be an Sy Blone!
9:49 If that is the case, then we are all going down. We all have done at least one of the things you mention and no where in what you say does it offer any chance of redemption. As for the drunkards etc. If the WI is so religious why are there any pubs etc. here?
So many of the people here claim one thing and do something else. I wonder how many members of the LDOS observe the Sunday when they are away on Holiday or visiting friends/family on the mainland?
Anon 2:41 - hence why I said there are many hypocrites, the actions of 1/100/1000 Christians in the WI does not mean every other Christian is a hypocrite though. Its so easy to generalise.
'wonder how many members of the LDOS observe the Sunday when they are away on Holiday or visiting friends/family on the mainland?' - this is a good point the WI is not more special that the rest of the country, however it would be very sad to see the culture of the islands changed for commercial or spiteful reasons.
Anon 2:25 - does it not matter that people are oppressed as long as buildings remain intact. Are you saying we shouldn't have destroyed the royal palaces in Germany during WWII?
Thanks Angus, anon 2:12 from your "out of touch," blog here.
As anon 2:41 puts it we're ALL going down and ALL sinners. IMO The bible is a book of morals and nice stories that offers millions of people hope of a better life after this one. There is so much evidence supporting evolution and many holes in the stories of the bible. Men shouldn't decide if you can get the curam, neither should they decide if you can marry, get christened OR become a minister. This man Rennie is probably a better person than many of the reformed alcoholic hypocrites that fill the pews of this protestant stronghold. When they get the curam are they not supposed to then be accepted, bullet-proof if you like. Its a ticket to acceptance in the community for being a hooligan in your youth or its been drilled into you from an early age by god fearing parents with tales of hell and damnation. I like the hope of the afterlife. Hamun race needs something to believe in but for God sake, chill out a bit. I live my life by the law, I put my children to Sunday school so they can hear and decide for themselves. Those that need hope - have it in the Bible.
It just riles me that these religious people think they themselves are God. Regardless of what Rennie has done or is doing, he wants to preach the gospel and no man should have the power to stop him.
Anon 3:56 - The germans were quite naughty and needed putting in their place. World War and all that, take no prisoners. Do you not agree?
Anon 5:54 - that was my point, see anon 2:25
I tend not to subject my children to sexism, racism and homophobia, hence I don't send them to church here.
Angus, I think you're being uncharacteristically squeamish by not wanting to "intrude in an area of personal beliefs". How much of your blog would be left if you applied that logic consistently? I'm in two minds over this. On the one hand, it is wonderfully entertaining to see the faithful taking pot shots at each other on the basis of who said what in Middle East 4,000 years ago, and anything that further splits the church must be a good thing (they can't do any real harm while they are squabbling amongst themselves), and yet it is truly depressing that there are still so many (ostensibly normal) people out there who genuinely believe that homosexuality is (1) a lifestyle choice (2) wrong. Imagine if we took the same line with left-handed people. Oh wait a minute, didn't the church used to persecute them as well? There's probably still an obscure sect in Backwoods County, Oklahoma, that still gets off on this kind of nonsense. A final thought: do Christians become bigots because they are Christians, or do bigots become Christians because they are bigots? Discuss.
Angus, I think you're being uncharacteristically squeamish by not wanting to "intrude in an area of personal beliefs". How much of your blog would be left if you applied that logic consistently? I'm in two minds over this. On the one hand, it is wonderfully entertaining to see the faithful taking pot shots at each other on the basis of who said what in the Middle East 4,000 years ago, and anything that further splits the church must be a good thing (they can't do any real harm while they are squabbling amongst themselves), and yet it is truly depressing that there are still so many (ostensibly normal) people out there who genuinely believe that homosexuality is (1) a lifestyle choice (2) wrong. Imagine if we took the same line with left-handed people. Oh wait a minute, didn't the church used to persecute them as well? There's probably still an obscure sect in Backwoods County, Oklahoma, that still gets off on this kind of nonsense. A final thought: do Christians become bigots because they are Christians, or do bigots become Christians because they are bigots? Discuss.
SY Sceptic : the answer is neither, yes bigots sometimes become christians, yes some christians are bigots, but the two can be mutually exclusive. By the way i had no idea of the irony of my writing that it is open season on bigots.
PS have you stopped beating your wife?
the incest of Noah is never justified in the bible. The brothers and sisters obviously married each other - this time it is justified - there was no-one else! Which brings me to an interesting question - what did the first dinosaur mate with? or the first mammal? or the first fish? or the first platypus? I'm sure i could go on my point is that the THEORY of evolution requires two of every creature to suddenly evolve not just one!
Why should Christians not stand up for their beliefs and values that once made this nation strong. Our country is crumbling in many ways and people are falling into a state of anomie.
Christians have become the most persecuted group in this country and unless you read christian publications and websites you will never hear about it. The most extreme bigotry in this country comes from the gay rights lobby who for years now a spouted lies and hated about Christianity that are never challenged in the media.
Christians do not hate individuals who are gay but hate the sin of homosexuality and if I'm not mistaken they are still afforded free speech to voice their beliefs. You can never stop people living their lives in a certain way but in this case the minister betrayed the C of S by not resigning and respecting the moral law of God.
Anon 2:16.
Please explain just how Noah got the hippos into the Ark and fed and kept them safe in a rocking and confined space.
Just who went and found, sexed, caged and then bought back two pandas from China, two kangaroos from Australia and two three toed-sloths from South America in the mere few days it supposedly took between the instruction to build the ark and the rain starting?
How was the food gathered and stored on the ark? Especially the fresh eucalyptus leaves for the Koalas...
Were there only two ants, or did the aardvarks have a secret stash for the 40 days?
Who was tasked to clean out the lions' cage (box/room/suite)?
Were the elephants happy being ballast and not seeing the daylight for the entire journey?
Was the global sea salty? If so, what arrangements were made to look after the fresh-water crocodiles on the Ark? If not, presumably there were two whales in steerage class.
It's an allegorial story about the creation of the Black Sea when the isthmus at Istanbul burst, and taking it literally will be injurious for your mental health.
Although I fear it may be too late in your case.
very good 2:38
interesting points - to little space to answer them here - what about a nice subscription to answers magazine?
"Skeptics of the Genesis record are quick to point out that it would have been "impossible" for Noah to collect such a vast array of animals. Even given the time allotted, they argue, he and his family would not have had time to build the ark and collect the animals.
A careful examination of the text, however, reveals that Noah and his family were not in charge of this gargantuan task. Rather, we are told that the animals came unto Noah:
And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive (Genesis 6:19-20, emp. added).
The only task for which Noah was responsible, according to the biblical record, was building an ark of the appropriate dimensions as given to him by God"
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_Noah_load_all_the_animals_inside_the_Ark_in_one_selfsame_day_-_Genesis_7_v_13-15
I will never, ever join or support a church that does not give minorities the same rights as the majority.
Yes, I am cool with Christians standing up for their own beliefs. Marvellous. Let them campaign against them if they wish but they should never have the right to stop them.
I want Sunday ferries. I believe Sunday ferries are good. That is my belief.
Yet the so-called Christians of Lewis and Harris believe they have a God-given right to deny me that.
That is not democratic, tolerant or fair. It is also not Christian.
It is oppressive and unbiblical.
What would Jesus do? He who refused to curse non-believers?
Luke 9:52-56: "...they did not receive him...And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."
The bible was written for another time. I think our island Christians realise that too because they are so very selective in the bits they quote.
Or maybe they do have slaves and sacrifices on Friday nights and approve of the slaughter of the firstborn children in various Middle East countries. Come on, tell us. Do you?
And tell us, do you accept Exodus 31 verse 15? It says: "Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."
It upsets me to contribute to this blog and to highlight some of the nonsense written in the bible. But im a logical person repressed in the western isles. No one wants to take hope from believers by ripping apart the scriptures online and raising doubys. That is what may happen if this continues, if so-called christians continue to spoil things for real people. By such I mean denying us sunday sailingsand denying a man, who Wants to spread the good news, his destiny perhaps.
Christians should back down now and tuck their tails in. We are now living in a different world. An evil dirty world that wont last long at our present rate.
Dont deny us ferries, dont deny our visitors the chance to relieve themselves on a Sunday AND dont deny Christianity a preacher that might, just maybe, reach out to other people that the current church does not.
Keep your opinions to yourselves, dont enforce your practices on us. Let go your grip on our island and let us free. If you dont bother us, we certainly won't bother you.
I think those who worry about gays in the Church of Scotland should join the Catholics. Their those in charge cannot marry, but it is perfectly acceptable to abuse children and for that to be covered up by those higher up. And then of course there is the top man himself ex Hitler Youth. But this is all OK because they are NOT Gay.
The Aberdeen church should be pleased that someone who is so obviously committed to his work and clearly has no problems with his sexuality, is ONLY gay.
Are we not all equal in the eyes of god?
A Gay minister would have more life experience in bullying and bigotry etcetera than a straight minister.
What is there to be worried about?
That is something to be worried about if any Minister /Priest or any man/Woman that represents any religious group mistaking respect for his position in the church as respect for Himself.
If the “GAY” minister acts in the interests of the church first and puts his life and needs second, then he would earn his own respect and place in any community Christian or other.
It could be far worse in Uist there is a “Man of the church” who acts like the new “LORD OF THE ISLES” and some people are afraid to say anything against him in case it upsets their church.
Anon 10:29 "Keep your opinions to yourselves, dont enforce your practices on us. Let go your grip on our island and let us free. If you dont bother us, we certainly won't bother you."
So much for freedom of expression and faith then! Maybe John Knox and the reformers shouldn't have bothered, what good did that do for our country anyway?
9.12, amazing how freedom of expression and faith stops the minute after you become presbyterian. Your freedom, if it extends to stopping me doing whatever I legally want to, impinges on my freedom. Do you see any problem with that?
(And really what good did Knox do us? buggered if I know. One load of crap for another.)
A society where social and moral norms are confused, unclear, or simply not present leads to deviant behavior.
Remember liberal attitudes in Germany in the 1930s allowed the Nazis to take power, the greatest evils in history have been carried out by leaders who rejected the moral norms provided by religion - Hilter, Stalin, Mao, Pot.
12:41 - "And really what good did Knox do us? buggered if I know. One load of crap for another"
Liberating us from pacacy rule was quite significant in the history of Scotland.
There is a difference, The criminals you listed were bad people. We aeren't bad, we just dont want to be imprisoned on a sunday and a piss in a public toilet would be nice. LDOS are making a fool of the whole christian community!
2.32 -
The great leap forward from papacy to calvinism - how is that an improvement? Nice little anti-RC thing raising its head here but while I don't deny that some of Knox's theories in principle (re education, for instance) are admirable, we're still awash with narrowminded, authority-assuming god-botherers, just not Italian ones.
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