Sunday sailings - the latest
I understand that on Wednesday CalMac will announce that Sunday sailings are to start in just a few weeks, and then they will then go to consultation on that position.
With consultation only lasting a few weeks, it is going to be a fait a compli for the LDOS.
At this point they might realise that their supporters in the Comhairle are actually making the situation worse by their inept approach to Sunday issues.
A free bit of advice to the LDOS: drawing a line and refusing to negotiate is not a sustainable position when the other side hold all the cards.
With consultation only lasting a few weeks, it is going to be a fait a compli for the LDOS.
At this point they might realise that their supporters in the Comhairle are actually making the situation worse by their inept approach to Sunday issues.
A free bit of advice to the LDOS: drawing a line and refusing to negotiate is not a sustainable position when the other side hold all the cards.
94 comments:
Good news indeed on the Sunday issues. The last 35 years have felt like living in an open prison with LDOS as the self appointed warders. I committed no crime; my only miscalculation was coming to live on Lewis, thinking it was part of the UK.
However, all seems to be well now, and not before time.
A birdie in NE Lewis tells me that one member of LDOS has been sounding out a few of the boatie owners in Stornoway, to see what could be done to make it "difficult" for the ferry to operate on a Sunday...
Yippee a blockade! Absolutely can't think of a better way to give national publicity to the new Sunday ferry service, especially if they are to start it up before the next timetable. In fact if LDOS aren't organising it maybe Calmac should.
LDOS standing in the way of my human rights? Not very christian of them is it?
A blockade on a Sunday - surely not? all the god fearing types will be in church praying for the souls of the damned.
Everybody I speak to is in favour of Sunday service. I cannot imagine that there is a majority against. Makes no sense to me. From shopping weekends away to attendance/participation of mainland sporting events. It is great that we are being dragged (by Euro law?) kicking and screaming towards a more recent century.
As a regular, weekly commuter, I am overjoyed at the prospect of being able to get home for the weekend without either using up precious annual leave or spending a fortune on flights. It has always felt at best unfair and at worst unlwaful, that another's religious view should impact so heavily on such a basic requirement (now confirmed). Can't wait...
Well personally I say sooner the better.
As a Christian I have found myself completely appalled at the theological ignorance of people regarding this issue and the total lack of Christ in people's thinking.
A blockade in SY- not likely on the Saaaabeth cos the LDOS have been moaning for years about the boats that do fish/ sail on Sundays!
Now the Scalpaidh fleet- thats different!
Great news, this service will be of great help to the many people of the island that have to work in the oil industry and are traveling back and fourth on a regular basis, we can still live easily on the island and bring extra money into our dwindling economy, the island needs all the help it can get, now we just need our Harris super quarry and some offshore windfarms....
I respect the LDOS position on opposing Sunday sailings though it is not my own view and I’m glad to see a 7 day service on the horizon. The decision has been made so the sooner they start the better for everyone who has been waiting for this service. The LDOS will only loose dignity and credibility in my eyes if they turn this into a circus which will only delay the start of this by a week or two. By all means make their views public on the day however getting a few coorie skippers to make things awkward or having a sermon on the links span will only make us the laughing stock of the country and is not going to benefit anyone.
As for the council, these guys should be working hard (right now!) at getting Calmac to come up with a useful timetable coupled with prompt transport links to and from Inverness so that this service is as much of a benefit to the Islanders and business as possible.
Lord knows...I'm miserable now...
I don't see what LDOS's problem it sounds as if they have adopted a similar ideology to the Taleban! If they do not like Sunday ferries they do not have to use them? They should not force their religious beliefs on others. Sunday ferries have been running from Lochmaddy for years and its a popular service and I'm sure those of North Uist can now surely appreciate the benefits of having the service even if they personally do not use it.
Has anyone actually done a poll to see what people think on this? As far as I can see, the pro-sailings lobby is no more credible than the LDOS in its insistence that the "majority want Sunday sailings". Says who? Just because you shout louder doesn't make you right.
Also, with the exception of one or two more respectful posters on here, the majority of you take a snide, arrogant and bullying stance as regards those opposed to Sunday sailings. I can't imagine that this advances your argument or the wider "human rights" (3.37pm) issue very much. It's unpleasant and totally counter-productive. If you have logic on your side, you shouldn't need to resort to childish name-calling and narrow-minded "Wee Free" stereotyping.
This has always been an "equalities" issue.
If you have the money for a plane ticket then you can travel on a Sunday. For those unable or unwilling to pay for a plane ticket then Sunday travel is denied. How can this be fair? CALMAC and CNES have been discriminating against low income families for years!
In the Equality Act 2006 under Part 1-7 Scotland: human rights it states:
"The Commission shall not take human rights action in relation to a matter if the Scottish Parliament has legislative competence to enable a person to take action of that kind in relation to that matter."
“the Commission shall not, in the course of fulfilling a duty under section 8 or 10, consider the question whether a person’s human rights have been contravened if the Scottish Parliament has legislative competence to enable a person to consider that question.”
BBC News 14/05/09 - "Chairman Peter Timms confirmed that the company was approached by the commission following a complaint which suggested it was operating in breach of the Equality Act 2006."
Surely this means it is a matter for the Scottish Parliament before the Commission gets involved?
I am not a member of LDOS - never have been, never will be. I have never supported Sunday ferries and take exception to the rants on this site which seem to suggest that only LDOS members are in opposition.
I have a strong fear that the way of life I have always cherished will be destroyed by the inevitable commercialism that will follow on from this.
If it was only for bringing people back and forth I would have no concern.
I'm not sure that someone who wishes to travel by this means on a Sunday has any greater 'Human Rights' than those of us who want to preserve a unique way of life.
Anon 8.34AM
This is the only poll I can find and it's nine years out of date.
Anyone know of anything more recent?
8.34 am
I am not religious, nor do I go to church, but I do agree with you that there is an undisguised glee in the postings regarding this subject. A major cultural change is about to take place and along with the gains will also come losses.
Everything has some value and those that are most vocal should examine themselves as to whether their joy is rooted in hostility and the humiliation of proud people who do not agree with their world view. There is such a thing as being gracious in victory.
I also wonder whether these same people would be so vocal if the culture they faced, and wanted changed to comply with their liberal views were Native American or Muslim, I doubt it. Not a soft enough target.
Personally, I don’t care one way or the other about Sunday sailings. If they come great; if they don’t who cares?
I think the Stornoway Trust election gave an indication. The candidates who wanted to do away with Sunday observance didn't get elected.
2.24PM Jean Preen fae Aberdeen:
"The last 35 years have felt like living in an open prison"
In these 35 years, I'm sure there must have been a suitable ferry for you to leave on!!
This island is dying on it's arse. It has a dwindling, ageing population and is rapidly becoming an economic basket case.
Any sane place in similar circumstances would grab an improvement to a lifeline service with both hands.
The crows who preside over their congregations are contributing to this decline, just as the Rev John Mackay did 150 years ago on St Kilda.
12:29 Not true. The turn out was about 30%. What it may show is that the luddites were more motivated to vote than those who wanted change. That's all.
Seems like respect for anybody's beliefs but their own has already been lost by many islanders. I am not religious but respect those that are and I'm happy to accept a little inconvenience for the sake of freedom of choice. In this current age the legal opinion would probably be that that a Sunday ferry would be illegal if it offended the beliefs of Muslims or any other religion but Christianity.
In twenty years time kids may say "Daddy when did the Sunday ferries come" - "2009" .... "What does respect mean? " - "Don't know, son."
Gulp..LDOS have got themsleves a QC. And its that bloke that used to be in The Professionals.
1:18PM Actually very true.
What's the turnout got to do with the result of an election anyway? It's the votes that count. Hence, those with more votes were elected. Duh!
It says it all if the Pro's can't be bothered to vote.
Because we're all so busy during every minute of the week, and so as not to infringe our human rights, perhaps we should hold elections on a Sunday.
1.10pm, I can't believe you have the temerity to blame ministers of the Gospel for the economic decline in Lewis. Where does that leave Angus Campbell, Donnie MacAulay et al? Can we blame them for dwindling church membership? Let's blame HIE Innse Gall and CnES for the duff economy and let's not kid on that Sunday ferries will turn us into millionaires overnight.
Show a bit of respect for these "crows", as you call them. They're really not the problem.
The LDOS is a single issue political pressure group and its activists represent a minority and in some cases extremist view. The language now coming out in press releases from LDOS - check Hebrides News today - betrays increasing desperation and shows what they are really concerned about losing is control. Well sorry guys you'd better get used to it - nowadays even on the Isle of Lewis most people really do want to decide some things for themselves.
According to Hebrides News our MSP is lining up with the LDOS....
Good to see he is in touch with the public on the islands.
LDOS
All you have to do is not drive round by the terminal on a Sunday on your way to church. Keep your eyes firmly focused on the road (God forbid that might actually mean that the rest of us can drive without fear of bodily harm on a Sunday), go to church, go home and do whatever you want to do on a Sunday.
The rest of us will live our lives the way that we want to. Go forth and be free, 7 days a week.
Live and let live.
Amen
Some heated stuff going on here.
I for one - am in total agreement with Sunday sailings, I just cannot wait.
I am in no way against LDOS or the church I have 100% respect for them and their beleif I undertsand their view 100%, I dont agree with it but I understand it.
However, I would never ever make another person do something or not do something because my beleif was diiferent to theirs I would never obstruct or dictate to another what they should or shouldnt do.
Obstructing someones movement due to religious beleif is wrong, its inhumane and unchristian. How can a minority dictate and obstruct. Shame on anyone whos tries. I welcome judgement day and fear no reprisal from god for wanting to travel freely in a democracy 7 days a week.
I do beleive Lewis will change because of it, some good, some bad, thats life. We cant live our lives in fear of change. I will continue to respect the Sabbath (but dont for one second expect that to be reciprocated) but I retain the right to move freely in the democracy I live and that I thank god for.
Anyone know what happened to Iain Maciver's post on his blog about the two (at least) LDOS spokesmen having widely differing views, and the director of LDOS apparently not knowing who Angus Mackay is, or that they were engaging a solicitor? The post's been removed now.
Angus, your random library list is kind of queerly appropriate at the moment:
Systems of Transport in the Islands
Dying Light
The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime (are people going to be attacking each other's animals, as they did in Lemreway in the 1950s?)
The Best Democracy Money Can Buy (Democracy? Money? Commerce? What?)
Stranger in a Strange Land
What we have here is a historical hangover where the church or at least certain parts of it, despite declining numbers and all the changes in society, still expects to dominate local thinking and decisions on certain issues. They have long since lost any legitimacy to do this and many church people know and accept this. What we are seeing now with the ferry issue is a complete loss of perspective on the part of some elements within the church.
They, the church or LDOS are so bloddy minded and out of touch. Is it no wonder that they are in decline. There stance only drives people in the opposite direction. Be Christian and live and let live.
This just gets better and better. So now the pro-Sunday ferry lobby is telling the LDOS and church how to behave in a Christian manner. I think that if we're enttled to freedom and to live our lives the way we want, then we should afford the same courtesy to the church and its adherents.
There is something very wrong with a society that blames all its problems on the church. I think they should be bottom of the list of suspects. I worry that you're all in for a big disappointment when we get 7 day sailings and still the tourists fail to come. We're like a little microcosm of Britain right now, giving ground and sacrificing our own uniqueness to the demands of other cultures. James Shaw Grant used to be frustrated by Stornowegians who boasted about their Woolies, the thing that made them the same as everywhere else. They chose not to boast about the many special and unique features of island life.
Still, when we have our seven-day sailings at least they'll all stop calling us ignorant, Wee Free teuchters. We'll be respected throughout the country for taking this bold step that makes us . . . oh yeah, just like everybody else. What a disgrace. Now, if we could just get rid of Gaelic . . .
get a grip, no one wants to lose the gaelic (that keeps us unique) Uniqueness is not in question, that is not the church's care nor that of the islander.
I dont care whether tourists use the facility or not. We will all have a choice. Wouldn't it be good to be able to go to raigmore for example if a member of ones immediate family was taken out on the saturday evening. The alternative would be to arrive on monday when they might be dead already.
another poster mentioned the risks involved due to doddery churchgoers on the roads on sunday. While this is true in most cases, my point is the disgraceful parking on matheson road and north beach (bottom of church street) Im aware the signs have parking guidelines excluding sundays but its ignorant and uncourteous to reduce both streets to single lane traffic. Reduce the churh's carbon footprint while we are at it and start car-pooling or at the very least - pull up on the very wide pavement just enough to let pushchairs past on one side without interupting the flow of vehicular traffic on the other.
We can still be a wonderful unique island AND have excellent transport links
6:44 1:10 wasn't saying that they (the crows)had caused the decline (though no doubt the fundementalist approach to religion doesn't help). He was saying that their stance was not doing anything to help the situation. Respect has to be earned. Wearing a dog collar does not automatically give respect.
3:50 what I said was that only 30% of the electorate voted. Therefore no one can claim to have an overhelming mandate or that the vast majority.... etc. because 70% of people did not vote. I didn't expand the thought fully as I assumed that most people would see where it was going. I apologise for over estimating your intelligence.
If Cal Mac start running the service what can LDOS do (LDOS are actually "owned" by an organisation called Day One Christian Ministries)? Cal MAc will not be breaking any laws.
How many members of LDOS actually work for companies that operate on a 7 day basis? How many buy papers on a Monday wghich were printed and produced on a Sunday?
How many drive cars, the petrol and diesel for which will have been produced or transported on a Sunday.
How many use electricity which is produced on a Sunday? The claims of LDOS are so hypocritical that they are an embarressment to many of us that go to Church. They are the Christian eqivalent of the Taliban.
10:54am
Pathetc.
hey 9:27 never beleive a lei (they're not always from hawaii!)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/5160076.stm
LDOS advocate- Labour MSP Gordon Jackson previously gave an assurance he had given up legal work.
3.35
You are way behind the times.
Gordon Jackson stood down at the last Scottish election to make way for a top notch SNP candidate
I'm quite happy to roll over and forget about affordable travel on Sundays under the proviso that members of LDOS and anyone who signed their petition be blocked from boarding the Stornoway-Ullapool ferry on, oh I don't know, let's say Saturdays.
Why is there not an Isle of Lewis/Harris Ferry Users group for those who use the 2 Ferries that serve the Island?
It seems that what goes for a Ferry Users Group is run under the auspices of HiTrans and is made up of representatives from you’ve guessed it the CNES,HIE Inse Gall, Highland Council, Hitrans, and others that you might call the usual suspects. The only group represented on this Committee buy what one might consider proper users are the Road Haulage Association. Even this Committee has not met (well it hasn’t posted and minutes) since June 2007. You'll also be able to see the complete makeup of this committee and those who bother to turn up.
If residents of Lewis and Harris are serious about 7 day sailing, and don’t want the representations of a religious group (LDOS) to be thought of by those in charge to be thought the typical Islanders view, we need our own Group/Association to be in the consultative cycle.
Who is up for organising a Users Group or at least a meeting to discuss the setting up of such a group? Come on if you really want Sundays Ferries we will have to fight fire with fire otherwise LDOS might win because apparent apathy of ferry users.
The Tourism Industry is also represented on the OH Ferry Users Group. If you have a tourism related business (even loosely)then you can join the OHTIA and have your say that way
yeah ban them on saturdays, see how they like it
Gordon Jackson has given the pro Sunday ferry lobby dilated anal orifices. So much for the pressure brought about from Eagleton to send emails to CalMac in favour of Sabbath ferries. Get a life Mr S
As realistic as an LDOS supporter.
Sounds like the Sunday ferry supporters think they're in the majority. Think you'll find every poll/election has them in the minority.
How's that for an example of a minority trying to influence the majority?
If people don't like the place they live in then they know what they can do. Then, they won't have to worry about the lack of a Sunday ferry. They could always come back on holiday to teach the natives about how progressive their lives have become since moving away.
Perhaps they could bring up the issue of their Human Rights as they spend 4 hours each day sitting on the M25.
9.13 - you're full of it. This is the only published survey on the issue:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/679007.stm
And you'll see it's FOR Sunday ferries. The Trust election was not about this issue, though it's true that 6-dayers were voted in - but the turnout was low, it didn't involve the rest of the island and there were other issues involved. Philip Maclean reckons his door-to-door poll in Plasterfield gave 70% for Sunday ferries. That the council is not making any information they have public, rather suggests that it's against the position that they're currently, unjustifiedly, maintaining.
And like many, you jump to huge conclusions about Sunday ferries destroying your "way of life". Have a look at all the other rural places with Sunday access and you'll see they're not seething beds of sinful behaviour.
09:13 If the folk on Lewis/ Harris wwishing to enter the 21st Century are a minority, then their rights as a minority must be regarded and given precedence over the majority. After all, LDOS etc (who are a very small minority on the mainland) are constantly striving to get things their way by using that very mantra; so, what is good for the goose is also good for the gander.
Also, why should those who wish to have Sunday ferries have to leave the island? We have Sunday flights, the fabric of society has not been rent asunder; the pillars of strength have not collapsed. Even Angus McCormack has used the flights on a Sunday. One wonders how many others have done so too?
The edicfice is crumbling, will be breached and shall collapse. The control that the crows (as another correspondent called them) exercise, which is already waning, shall wane at a faster pace and more people will stop being under the control of them and able to make their own decisions of their own free will.
When you go away on holiday or leave the island, do you observe Sunday as you would here? if not why not?
Who are the Lords Day Observance Society?
All references point to Day One Christian Ministries and a website. This organisation give no information as to how it is funded, there is no list of benefactors just a comment about Christian Publishing, ‘In the early 1990s, publishing became a core activity for Day One’ so this activity must bring in income. They also seem to be a Travel Agent arranging tours to Israel and Egypt ‘For a number of years, enquiries have been received regarding the availability of Christian tours that do not involve travel and tourism on the Lord's Day’ How one can travel to such places and not involve anyone working on the ‘Lords Day’ is beyond me, or is it alright because the workers all belong to one of those ‘other’ religions? So who or what pays for the upkeep of this pressure group?
They are not based in the Isle of Lewis but in Leominster Hertfordshire, although it can’t be denied they seem to have considerable support here, but why is this? Do they have support here only because the church(s) here needs outside support for their campaign on the Sunday issue? Day One Christian Ministries do seem to hold meetings but don’t go anywhere near Scotland let alone the the Isle of Lewis. I have also studied the Day One Ministries Website and there is no mention of the Isle of Lewis either in its campaign to keep Sunday as the Lords Day or as a bastion of Sunday observance, you would have thought that a group such as Day One would have had it plastered all over its website about the Sunday issues on Lewis, but no, nothing!
So just who are this group that hold such great sway over what we can or can’t do on a Sunday? If the argument for keeping Sunday special here is so compelling why do they have to use an outside pressure group with little or no local contact with the residents of the Isles?
Finally, if despite tradition or historical practices, residents feel there is a need for change, then there is a need for change, you cannot impose on people something that they do not want anymore, and the sooner that those who campaign for Sunday Observance realise this the happier the Isle of Lewis will be.
The next thing we will be hearing is that there is 90% of the population in favour of sunday sailings based purely on the responses to this blog.
The survey carried out by Mr maclean in plasterfield mentions the figure of 70% .
70% of what? 10 or 15 people I suspect.
Just in case readers of this blog do not follow the link to the BBC item about a poll I have lifted this incredible piece of conspiracy garbage from this news item.
Reverend John Macleod, of the Free Presbyterian Church in Stornoway, said he did not trust polls in general.
"We do not know how the interviewees were chosen. Did they put out the light and put pins in the phone book or did they deliberately choose who to phone?
"I don't know about Mori's techniques but it is surely possible that non-locals were targeted if, for example, they had non-local surnames."
Mr Macleod said it was not a case of majority or minority but what was in scripture.I haven't had such a good laugh for years, if this is the quality of intellect you get from the pro Sunday Observance lobby then we really do need Gods help, because surely we need all the help we can get because we sure aren't going to get it from one of his Preachers with this level of thought process.
It's just a thought but if all those who don't agree with Sunday Observance were to leave the islands as has been suggested by one or two of the commentors here, how on earth would they survive for the other six days of the week?
Come to think of it mass exodus is a cracking idea, surely we could all claim political/religious asylum on the mainland get rehoused priority on jobs etc like all asylum seekers do! We could all then campaign to have all ferries and contact stopped with a fundamentalist and religiously restrictive culture (a bit like we do with Iran) and then watch as the Isle of Lewis descends into chaos.
I wouldn't dispute anyone's right to a Sunday ferry, if that's the will of the people. However, the presence of a number (however small OR large) who want a ferry does not automatically make the beliefs of the LDOS invalid. These are people who subscribe to the Christian doctrine, which says that Sundays should be kept special; there would be something amiss if they did NOT attempt to stop the ferry sailing on a Sunday. It is what they believe in, rightly or wrongly. They, therefore, have the right to have their views heard and listened to respectfully. It's okay to take a different view, it's okay to press your case for Sunday ferries but it is not okay to make personal attacks on them or their beliefs.
This debate has become really unpleasant and vitriolic. I think some respect and a bit of perspective is called for.
Another Commandment is thou shall not make false idols. Seems the god fearing have over looked the worship of money and plan to build 24/7 turbine idols for the pious folk of Galston, Tolsta and Point.
The LDOS manipulate the rules to suit them at all times. Look at the fuss over the gay Rev. That according to the book is wrong ok when are they going to bring back slaves to sleep with and recommence stoning unfaithful wives? The same book agrees with that.
As for the Rev John MacLeod his stance as usual borders on the zenapobic but he is a wee free so thats ok.
LOL The end is neigh well at least for ferries. Next the Golf club and sports centre please.
12.19pm
I agree entirely. I'm in favour of a 7 day ferry service but I don't take pleasure in trampling over the sincerely held beliefs of others.
My understanding is that the LDOS case is based on their interpretation of scripture and, if that is the case, it's extremely silly for them to become embroiled in an argument over polls. If a poll was conducted that found 80% in favour of a Sunday ferry service, would the LDOS alter its position? No, so why pretend their opposition is because they claim to speak for the majority?
12.19 You miss the point, of course they (LDOS) are to respected, but why oh why do the try to stop others doing what they wish to do on a Sunday? We are talking about the right to travel, visit, come home, go to work. Its not an evil thing the pro ferry people want. The LDOS say they are fighting for there way of life, actually nobody is stopping them having there way of life. Can we have ours please?
The talk in the Coffee Pot this morning was that the LDOS is doomed because as soon as Ian D Campbell went off to the general assembly a certain Daily Mail journalist was recruited to write Angus Mackays scripts. They really are buggered.
The distance between SY and Ullapool is about 50 miles.
Say on a sunday a minister and his family go to church (twice,as is common) that day, travelling 12.5 miles each way from home to church. Same distance.
It is funny on a Sunday you see big long convoys of cars,many flashy, many 4x4s. Such Christian humility and care for Gods earth.
They drive Toyotas, Hondas and other Japanese makes, built in Japan by Japanese people who are largely not Christians. Do they care about that?
Their cars use oil from the middle east (although maybe some from Scotland). That same middle east that is staunchly Muslim. Whenever they pay money at the pumps, they are propping up repressive Islamic governments. Do they care about that?
If there was a bridge over the minch, would they close it on a Sunday?
So it is ok to pay more to fly, but not go on the ferry?
Is it Christian to separate friends and family,visiting sick people in hospital?
If a referendum was called tomorrow, I am not a betting man, but I would be certain that a majority would vote in favour. It is just many do not speak out because they might lose custom,or have awkward moments with their observant neighbours.
But a secret ballot.....
The racism displayed in some of the posts from the anti-Sunday ferry brigade is disgusting. If you honestly think that it is only non-Gaels that are anti then you are sadly and seriously deluded. You also need to realise that your attitudes almost certainly contribute to people leaving the islands.
LDOS, you do not speak for me, my family or virtually all of my friends. Our culture and way of life is not defined by whether a ferry runs or not.
LDOS / any Christian reader show me where in the bible it says specifically to "keep Sunday special"?
12:19 PM said 'This debate has become really unpleasant and vitriolic. I think some respect and a bit of perspective is called for.'Hear hear. We'd all do well to stick to the issues and steer clear of personal attacks and unhelpful stereotypes - on both sides and not only here but in the wider media.
I'm afraid the anonymity offered by forums like this sometimes make us say things about each other we wouldn't dare say face t face.
I'm for by the way.
3.28 here. I meant to say non-Gaels who are pro (Sunday Ferry).
Anonymous 10.23 asks for titles of any books published by Day One Ministries (aka LDOS) I too have looked on their website and note that they have published works by Rev I Campbell. Perhaps he is their main representative on Lewis. I can't remember the titles, but as I remember they were specialsed -looking religious titles. Not the sort of thing a mainstream publisher would be rushing to print. Of course he will inevitably have derived income from his association with this publisher. Talk about "naked commercial greed" not to mention the kudos of being published (vanity, vanity). This reverend pot is calling the CalMac kettle black, I think.
The simple fact of the matter is that if the LDOS were really interested in keeping the commandment then they would be keeping Saturday special not Sunday. That they keep the Sunday sacred instead is simply down to traditions of man. So if someone tells you that sunday ferries are breaking the Sabbath just tell them that ferries have always run on the Sabbath as Saturday is the Sabbath.
I don't think this debate has become vitriolic I think it is just showing the frustration of the normal family unit who want to be allowed to do what they choose, whenever they chose it. They have no issue with anyone else doing what they want to do on a Sunday as long as that doesn't encroach on their own personal wants and needs. A typical Sunday may involve going to church in the morning, then out for a splash and swim and letting the kids let off some steam in the soft-play, lunch with the family, finished off with a round of golf with friends and maybe out for a glass of wine and a chin wag in the evening. Good Christian folk (as well as non-believers) have been doing this for years, all over the world, on a Sunday and are yet to be struck down.
The most unfortunate thing about these Islands is that a very tiny minority of extremist groups (LDOS and MWT) to name but two seem to think that bully boy tactics will keep their fires alight. BUT thankfully things are changing and hopefully soon people will be free to express an opinion without being publicly shouted down.
Bring it on, the sooner the better.
MWT and LDOS ?
this is going round in circles..... close this to new comments. I'm getting bored reading it.
I think that the issue is not the LDOS but CalMac and CNES. The LDOS are, simply, a lobbying pressure group and are doing what they think is right. CALMAC and CNES are publc bodies charged with providing public services. It is shameful that both bodies seek to actively deny all the people of the Western Isles Sunday Services that are common-place in the rest of the UK. In particular CalMac employ a crew to work ok Sunday to NOT provide a service. It's like closing the roads on a Sunday. They have been paid for (by us tax-payers) but you can't use them.
Just run the ferry, open the Sports centre and let people play golf on a Sunday and see what happens. Probably not much except that people would feel more relaxed and those that want to go to church would not notice. Remember that going to church is also a leisure activity. So why is one leisure activity OK but another one isn't?
CNES and CALMAC take far too much notice of the lunatic fringe called the LDOS who certainly don't represent my views!.
Are people not being a bit selfish here?
What about the poor buggers who work on the mainland and have to commute between the islands and there work. Will their employer now not insist that they leave the island on a Sunday rather than a Monday? Now these poor individuals will only get one full day at home with their families rather than two.
All because some selfish people want to get back from their holidays a day earlier.
How many of the people banging on the door for Sunday sailings have jobs that would entail them working on the Sunday...i.e. Calmac workers/Hauilers.
I would love to hear their opinions.I am not against Sunday sailings....just thinking about the impact it will have on other people and their families lives.
Last time I checked there was another 6 days to play with in the week...use them! Don't have enough time? would it not be great to have one day of the week free?
Sunday ferries to boost the economy of the islands? I don't think so, it's been proven during economic downturns that cutting back on the number of work hours actually helps the economy recover in these uncertain times.
P.S. I am not religious.Dismount soapbox
In reply to Anon 7.38, I would say that people who work on a Sunday get another day off in the week, which may suit them better if they chose to work on Sunday. Working hours are regulated by national legislation, and this will not change if we come into line with the rest of the UK with our transport links.
I have chatted to various people in Stornoway (mostly in shops) and I have been told that while some may not want Sunday work, plenty do. Also students and part-timers could get a chance to earn some money.
How cutting peoples' opportunity to work helps the economy in a recession, completely baffles me.
Perhaps Anon 7.38 can explain further.
Over the last few decades the population of Lewis and Harris has fallen steadily, largely through lack of job opportunities. How and who is this helping?
One of the great fears of living in Lewis and Harris is sticking your head above the parapet, for fear of what your neighbours, colleagues or fellow church-goers will make of your views. Too many folk are like the sheep that roam the hills and moorland....
It's grossly unfair that unless you've got the wherewithal to purchase flight tickets, that a person can't leave or come onto the island. The last time I flew, I chose to come home on a Sunday and counted only 4 empty seats on the plane. People are using this service and I'm sure will be only too glad to use the ferry in due course.
Where is the conviction of peoples' faith if they think that a ferry coming into the ports of Stornoway and Tarbert on a Sunday will destroy island life as we know it? That was said of Sunday flights and it hasn't happened.
Whilst I would use a Sunday service, I also respect the views of those that choose not to use it. However, a little common courtesey would not go amiss.
LDOS....
originators of the 24/6 society
Being able to work on a Sunday helps those who have child-care issues to earn some extra well-needed money.
The sooner our community opens it's eyes to 7 day opening so that we can chose what days to work, what days to rest and how we live our lives the better.
Surely Tesco will take the lead in Sunday opening soon?
It's the LDOS/Free Church/FCC/FPC who keep banging on about Exodus- just suggesting they're being a little selective!
Still, glad not to be gay out here...
Don't the island's ministers have an unfair advantge over the rest of us?
The really good ones should be able to WALK across the Minch
LDOS make a great fuss about the"naked commercial greed" of CalMac in wishing to run a 7 day ferry service to Lewis.
What about the greed shown by a local authority which charges council tax for 7 day services but only delivers 6 days worth?
I never heard that Lewis and Harris pay a lower rate than the Uists and Barra, though they get 7 days of services.
Perhaps the voters shoud be addressing this issue.
Appeals to common decency and asking for our human rights gets us nowhere with CNES. A straight attack on the funding might do wonders.
I agree with Jean Preen the only way we are going to win is by taking action and the only action I can see that might work is by civil disobedience, withhold Council tax, blockade the Council buildings, even the ferry terminal, perhaps a sit in at the Sports Centre on a Saturday night into Sunday, the lack of 7 day services here need radical action not just a lot of whinging on a blog. The ballot box is never going to be a solution to the problems here as democracy is dead, it probably never has been alive here. Our problems do need to brought to a wider audience and to do that you need publicity
THERE'S A CHALLENGE FOR SOMEONE TO ORGANISE A DEMO OUTSIDE THE FERRY TERMINAL. BIG QUESTION IS HOW MANY WILL TURN UP. ANSWER IS PROBIBABLY VERY FEW AS YOU WOULD ALL STAND IN THE BACKGROUND TO SEE IF ENOUGH PEOPLE WOULD TURN UP SO THAT YOU COULD HIDE BEHIND THEM.
IF YOU THINK I AM WRONG WHY NOT GO FOR IT !!!!
7:06pm
Does your comment not prove that democracy and freedom of thought and speech is dead here?
People are scared of the backlash that they would receive if they were to demonstrate. Better to keep quiet and hope things change.
7:06
There's no need to SHOUT! We can read in lower case as well...
3.23 PM
Democracy is dead? People only say that when they've voted for the losing side.
What vote is Anon3.23 referring to?
I was not aware there had been a vote on provision of Sunday facilities. Even the licensed premises did not open through a vote - that's far too above board for Stornoway. The voting public are manipulated by past masters,who stand for election and obscure the real issues that people are interested in, with a lot of eyewash. Need we look further than our current MSP, who is a disgrace to his office, in my opinion. He obviously does not give a hang for the wishes of t he majority who elected him, as long as he is doing the will of a certain few (we know / suspect who they are).
I am proud to say I did not vote for him and never would.
It's clear this issue will not go away now, and Cal Mac and CNES need to settle it sensibly and soon.
People say that democracy is dead when they have seen proper democracy work, and then they come to the Western Isles and see what happens here. What we have here is NOT democracy I would have this view regardless of whether the candidate that I voted for won or lost.
By voting all I am doing is showing a preference to which waste of space I prefer to try and represent my views, or more likely by NOT voting for a candidate, who has other motives for being in a position of power, be it religion or Masonic.
This does make voting at the local election difficult, on the Westside we have 4 Councillors 2 are masons 1 is a free church elder. If I was sexist, which I'm not, I'd say the other was a woman!
If people really feel there is no point in voting for any candidate, the only way I can see to register a protest is to "abstain in person" ie turn up to vote and spoil the ballot paper. This was advocated by Gavin Essler the TV (BBC?) political correspondent a while ago. I plan to do this in the next general and local elections if I don't like the candidates on offer. I plan to write "not fit for purpose" or similar, quite polite.
If enough people did this, it might (eventually) have an effect.
I hope there will be a big shake -up in the Westminster parliament which will be a step in the right direction. Snag is, I read in the press that a group of MP's, hand picked for their obedience to the (Labour) party line have been selected to do a bland report on the recent financial scandal, and there will be no open vote on it.
What's the point, eh?
7.38am, I quite agree. I know someone who is in that position exactly - worried that his employer will make him leave the island on Sunday.
I've heard some Sunday ferry supporters cite the chance to spend time with their family (on the mainland). Well, I imagine that my friend would like to go on spending the weekend with his family. Who's got the most valid argument? Exactly. You can't call it, can you?
7,38 and 10.21, that is quite a ridiculous argument.
If lack of provision has the side effect of benefiting a minority - basically by accident - that's no reason to deny the provision to the rest of us. It's also possible that with 7-day access, more people will be able to work off island while living here, because of better ferries - thereby bringing money into the island, allowing young families to live here who might otherwise be on the mainland, and so on.
Basically relying on lack of provision for the perks it might coincidentally afford a few is going nowhere as an argument, and is the sort of thinking (common in the Taigh Geal, oh yes) that keeps us in a weirdly stultified society here. Good affordable reliable provision all round is what brings the opportunities. We just need to embrace it all and make it work for us, not duck and dive and talk ourselves out of progress to protect our convenient little quirks. That's like saving what's in the frying pan while the house burns down.
Anon 10.24, I totally agree with you. I don't know what makes people so afraid of change. It is up to us to live in the world as it is and take advantage of the good things available. We should take charge and make sure things work out as well as possible.
If we stick with this everlasting negativity, the island is down the tubes for sure.
Of course it goes without saying that our elected representatives should be helping, not hindering this positive endeavour.
I think Calmac should spend its time and money trying to get the ferries to run on 6 days, never mind 7.
Anon 10:21pm
I think your "friend" should take some employment law advice. There are laws that protect employees against change of contract without consent.
This is just more scare mongering on behalf of LDOS.
So what is happening then? It has all gone very quiet..
The answer is surely the same as for many issues in what used to be 'Great Britain', i.e. just ask Brussels.
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